This felt more like More WOKE, Virtue Signalling than our Science based Star Trek we've all come to love. Nevertheless, being a Sci-Fi fan, I tried to ignore the Virtue Signalling and relaxed into the episode, which felt it was based on Emotion and trying to make the Audience feel good,.... Then, BOOM, the Woke culture slapped me around the face again when Earths president walked off the shuttle and all I saw was Freaking !!!Stacey Abrams!!! and the whole WOKE Culture was thrown to the forefront of my mind.... Thanks for Ruining what could have been an awesome Star Trek!... I hope Strange New Worlds with Captain PIKE doesn't go down this road.
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@alienmoon Yeah, I'm sick of all this newfound wokeness in Star Trek. For instance, I watched this episode from the 1960s where they had a white person and a black person kiss, and another from the same time period with these half-white half-black aliens where the whole thing is a big metaphor for racism being bad, and I'm like "Geeze, why you gotta throw this in my face?" What happened to the good old fashioned politics free Star Trek?
This felt more like More WOKE, Virtue Signalling than our Science based Star Trek we've all come to love. Nevertheless, being a Sci-Fi fan, I tried to ignore the Virtue Signalling and relaxed into the episode, which felt it was based on Emotion and trying to make the Audience feel good,.... Then, BOOM, the Woke culture slapped me around the face again when Earths president walked off the shuttle and all I saw was Freaking !!!Stacey Abrams!!! and the whole WOKE Culture was thrown to the forefront of my mind.... Thanks for Ruining what could have been an awesome Star Trek!... I hope Strange New Worlds with Captain PIKE doesn't go down this road.
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Damn you trumpers just can’t stop crying about everything.
Stay triggered trumper.
Also, kiss my retired, actual combat veteran rear.
Move to Russia.
Oh the wokeness ... SJW's must love it
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@eon4dk Can't you handle stepping outside your safe space?
This one doesn’t sit well with me.
So we should blame big tech companies for making us addicted to their products, and the nasty consequences that come of it?
I very much question that morality.
Addiction is a problem of the individual, something you have to fix by yourself (with the help of others).
It’s not something that a company, seeking to make profit, should be held resposible for.loading replies
@jordyep That wasn't my take away from the episode at all. Did you miss the conversation between Billy Bauer and Christopher? Christopher reiterated to Billy that it was Christopher's own fault what happened to his fiancee, and that he realizes that. He's the one to blame. He wanted to tell Billy about his experience and the addictive nature of Smithereens. Which is when Billy jumped in to agree, likening Smithereens to a casino with the doors shut off, and how he himself felt that he'd lost control of his own company. That this wasn't how he'd wanted Smithereens to turn out.
So I'm very confused about how you came to feel like the message was that "big tech companies are to blame". Christopher stated that the consequences of his actions were on his shoulders, so I don't understand how you got the opposite of "Addiction is a problem of the individual" from the episode.
I’m starting to wonder why I’m watching a show that is designed for children.
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@ausxor you mean star wars? yes of course it's for children. it's still good.
MODERATION EDIT: Respect other users.
Otis is seriously pissing me off this season. Back in season 1 he was, for the most part, "compellingly odd" as Maeve once said. This season, however, he's been doing nothing but antagonizing everyone around him from his mother to Jakob to Ola to Maeve and it's annoying as hell. The speech he made in this episode was just a bunch of self-righteous bullshit. I've been shipping him with Maeve from the start, but tbh now I think Maeve deserves better than this entitled little shit.
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@aniela-krajewska I get where you’re coming from and I agree he was being hugely annoying this episode (then again most people are when they get shitfaced in an emotional state). However, it’s also Otis who has been antagonised all through this season. He just boiled over this episode. I think he also had a right to express his feelings at the dinner table, when no one else dared. Hey not even his mother could honestly talk about hers. I actually agreed with Otis there.
You’re also forgetting how he’s always trying to help everyone even when he doesn’t really want to. He always puts others first. And then this mess comes out of it, where he feels like he’s just the one getting trampled on. I totally can’t be mad at that.
As long as Otis catches himself again, it‘a just an outbreak.
props to my boy Dylan G for holding that position for what seemed like an eternity!
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His outtie definitely did muscle shows!
Jonathan Majors , love the dude, but that performance was godawful. He kinda reminded me of Jesse Eisenberg in Batman V Superman
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@jordyep I can see why some people would think he was way over the top but that's how the character was written. You can't deliver ridiculous lines like that subtlety.
Shout by Antoine Kemperman
VIP4Brilliant twist. Awesome graphics, almost real. Strong story.
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@antoinek What Twist? Did I miss something?
The stunning photo-realistic visuals don't hide how horribly this objectifies women. What possible reason was there for her to naked throughout the whole thing? Anyway, the ending was a cool little moment.
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@maeron The issue people have is that her profession as an erotic performer had no real impact on the story in any way, so the nudity was technically unnecessary; you could have changed out her job for another nonsexual one, eliminating the need for nudity, and the story could be unchanged. I'm all for adult stories, including nudity/sex, but this was done purely for artistic and/or titillating reasons, which means it's totally reasonable for people to call it out as objectification.
not going to lie, i,m seriously worried about the direction the show is going in, not because we have a female doctor now, but because its pretty obvious that the BBC only cast her for political reasons. as long as they don,t keep constantly reminding us that she is a woman and they refrain from male bashing every chance they get, i,m ok with it, but i don,t trust the BBC to do the right thing
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They picked Jodie because Chibnall has worked with her and knows what an exceptional actress she is. Nothing to do with 'political correctness'
The empire’s story is the only interesting thing of the countless stories they’ve made up, instead of following the books.
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@magenof "Based off of" needn't mean "same as". My advice is still the same, if the book is more interesting, then read that.
Wow. This is just terrible. There's no other word for it other than that.
Firstly, the casting is just plain awful. Diversity for the sake of diversity takes its toll yet again, with people being cast into roles with the wrong ethnicity for that particular part. This is even more insulting considering the fact that the world all of this takes place in, already has tons of diversity in it to begin with. Don't shove it in where it doesn't belong!
Storywise... ooh boy. So much has been changed. And look, I get that book adaptations need certain elements changed in order to better fit a visual medium. And some changes they made, are fine. But let me just list some things that are completely wrong:
The whole concept of the Dragon. The show opens with a very brief description of who the Dragon is. The Dragon is the reincarnation of a male Aes Sedai who broke the world in ages past. Concise, but true. Good enough. But then they go on and say that this reincarnation could be either male or female? That makes no sense at all! The Dragon has to be male, because he's the reincarnation of a male Aes Sedai, and he will break the world a second time, just like he did before.
Finding the Dragon. Nobody knows who the Dragon Reborn is. People find out because he starts fulfilling the prophecies written about him just by being born in a certain place and on a certain time. That's how Moiraine narrows it down to the Two Rivers, by finding out about some young people there that fit those criteria. In this adaptation, all Aes Sedai have some sort of spidey sense that can pinpoint the Dragon. Lazy writing at its best.
The world itself. It should be winter, due to the Dark One's grasp increasing on the world. This is a big plot point, which causes visible distress with pretty much everyone, affecting their doings and thoughts, and in this adaptation they just dumb it down to "something drove the wolves down the mountain". It's spring in this version, and birds can be heard in pretty much every scene.
Characters not acting the way they should. Nynaeve is much too serene, Moiraine isn't serene enough, Egwene is much too mature, Perrin is much too jokey, Mat isn't jokey enough and much too responsible, and so on.
Characters' backstories changed to completely change their personality even further. Mat suddenly has abusive parents. Perrin, who is consistently described in the books as a shy, awkward, careful, peaceloving guy, not only has a girlfriend in this adaptation (his finding his first love in Faile Bashere later on is also a huge plot point that they dismissed by doing this), but he murders her in a fit of blind rage. Nynaeve is suddenly a "lost child", just so they could add her to the possible list of nonsensical Dragon candidates. Because suddenly the Aes Sedai spidey sense doesn't work anymore. Rand and Egwene having a full on sexual relationship while they're supposed to be a coming-of-age story that never works out for them.
Forced edginess. Nudity and sex scenes, while sparse, are shoved in your face so forcefully that you can just tell one of the producers saw Game of Thrones and told the script writers to shove "some of that" in there.
There is a LOT more wrong with this cesspool of an adaptation in terms of story, but those are some of the big ones. Also just overall bad acting and bad CGI. The CGI looks like a videogame from the mid 2010's.
I really wanted to like this, but no amount of goodwill can save this absolute mess of a show.
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@treiden Did we watch the same pilot? Let's see. Bear in mind I'm not going to argue with you about your clueless commentary on diversity in this particular comment, because I've sufficient to say about that elsewhere, and I don't need drama from someone like you. But the rest?
Mat's mother was an abusive parent, at least when drunk, in this adaptation - but there's no indication his father was one here. Cheating on his wife doesn't make him an abusive parent - just a lousy husband.
Perrin didn't "murder [his girlfriend] in a fit of blind rage"; he was in the midst of defending himself from a Trolloc, someone grabbed him from behind, and he swung his weapon, being so deep into that self-defence that he obviously thought her another attacker, and couldn't pull his blow in time. That wouldn't be considered murder in any reasonable court of law; it was clearly an accident.
As for the last, having played video games myself for decades, there's nothing particularly bad about the CGI here, either. I can't imagine what you're comparing it to, to make such a broad claim about its quality.
Jesus... what happened to this show ??
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@eleon What's the problem with it?
Shout by Detlef Schwanz
Oh well, my fears seem to come true.
This is basically just another Discovery: Written by people who never actually watched any Star Trek and got some bullet points like "Engage!", "Earl Grey", "Borg", "Vineyard" before force-fitting their generic Plot in their butchered version of the Star Trek universe.At no point in TNG were Cpt. Picard and Data anywhere near being friends, let alone best mates. Professional mutual respect, sure, but not friends.
But casting aside the usual idiocy regarding the incoherent techo bubble, logical errors and other stuff this series shares with Discovery,
theres one point in this episode where it became abundantly clear that this series will be as bad as its older sister: The flashback to mars.
These workers are sitting there, synthesizing their meals with a replicator. Something everyone who watched 1-2 episodes of Star Trek should be fairly familiar with.But these workers still all synthesize the same 21st century prison garbage on trays and bitch about the meals.
There you go: Form over substance, I'm out. Let this series rot with Discovery, poor Patrick Stewart.loading replies
@strel0k Pretty sure their relationship evolved to friendship in First Contact and Nemesis.
The single greatest hour of television I've ever witnessed.
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@crazymazey guessing i just have good taste lol
Can see they are pushing further inner exploration and growth during these episodes. Not sure why there is so much hate for allowing the trek ethos to grow in this way. Think too many are not willing to move with the times and allow this show to deal with social issues like past trek shows have done in their own way.
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@mad-maru Not to mention there are four previous iterations of Trek with 100s of episodes between them to scratch that vintage itch. Discovery is far from perfect but the endless bitching from people on here about "woke politics" and "too many feelings" are beyond tedious and they should just move on already if it upsets them that much.
Arg, again with pansexuality. SHE'S BISEXUAL! Jesus!
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@superverde how do you know? Have you checked in with her? :thinking:
Why do they think the audience is going to cheer for a cheating man getting back together with his ex-wife?
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@amberrav Because the audience is also human.
And suddenly this show is about girls getting it done, huh? That’s one way to screw up an interesting premise.
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@eiduren Hurr durr women bad
These last episodes are blowing me away. I love it. Spock is starting to grow on me, his supportive behavior was great. Mom Burnham was cold at first but it was the only defense mechanisme to have when you see your child die a hundred times. In these final moments, she softened at last.
Not to forget the expectionnal acting all around, this series is taking it to the next level each season.loading replies
@hildebread sorry I didn't know there was some gate keeping to watch this show. I need to send my resume to whom in order to watch a tv show ?
I appreciate this show, and there are different views than your own ;-)
I seem to have questions about the scene with June and Moira in the subway: why did they let themselves get separated like that? Why didn't one of them say "oh, I'm with my aunt / she's with me" ? Why didn't Moira call her over?
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@lefthandedguitarist
I think they were afraid they'd say something wrong and get each other caught. By not saying anything at least one of them made it out of the city.
- Did I accidentally put on Beauty and the Beast?
- I recognised Kristofer Hivju by his voice, but his face looks completely different without a beard and I would not have recognised him without his voice.
- Please give the hair and makeup department more money. I am begging.
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@amberrav Are you saying the boar man looked bad? Because I think he looked incredible!
Now it's getting typical Marvel meh. I liked the first 2-3 episode thought.
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@guenguer Newsflash: It's a Marvel show.
Review by Andrew Bloom
VIP9[7.5/10] Ahsoka feels right. The vistas of Lothal feel of a piece with their animated rendition. The characters seem like themselves despite shifts in the performer and the medium. Their relationships feel genuine even though much has changed in the five years since we’ve seen them together.
Maybe that shouldn’t be a big surprise with Dave Filoni, impresario of the animated corner of Star Wars, both writing and directing “Master and Apprentice”, the series premiere. He is the title character’s co-creator and caretaker. He is the creator of Star Wars: Rebels, the show that Ahsoka is most clearly indebted to. And he is, for many, the keeper of the flame when it comes to the Galaxy Far Far Away.
But it was my biggest fear for this show. More than the plot, more than the lore, more than the latest chapter in the life of my favorite character in all of Star Wars, my concern was that translating all these characters, and their little corner of the universe, to live action and a different cast and a different era of the franchise would make everything feel wrong. Instead, we’re right at home. The rest is gravy.
And the gravy is good. Because these are not the colorful, if intense, adventures of the Ghost crew fans saw before. This is, or should be, a period of triumph for the onetime Rebels. They won! The Empire is torn asunder! Lothal is led with grace and a touch of wry sarcasm by Governor Azadi, with none other than Clancy Brown reprising the role! Huyang the lightsaber-crafting droid is still around and has most of his original parts!
Nonetheless, our heroes are hung up on old battles and older wounds. Ahsoka Tano is on a quest to track down Grand Admiral Thrawn, who hunted the Spectres in Rebels. Sabine Wren can’t bask in the afterglow of victory as a hero when she’s still mourning Ezra Bridger. And the two warriors have some lingering bad blood with one another after an attempt to become master and apprentice, true to the title, went wrong somewhere along the way.
With that, the first installment of Ahsoka is a surprisingly moody and meditative affair, one that works well for Star Wars. Sure, there's still a couple of crackerjack lightsaber fights to keep the casual fans engaged. But much of this one is focused on familiar characters reflecting on what’s been lost, what’s been broken, and what’s hard to fix. The end of Rebels was triumphant, but came with costs. To linger on those costs, and the new damage that's accumulated in their wake, is a bold choice from Filoni and company.
So is the decision to focus on Sabine here. Don’t get me wrong, Ahsoka has the chance to shine in the first installment of the show that bears her name. Her steady reclamation of a map to Thrawn, badass hack-and-slash on some interfering bounty droids, and freighted reunions with Hera and her former protege all vindicate why fans have latched onto the character. For her part, Rosario Dawson has settled into the role, bringing a certain solemnity that befits a more wizened and confident master, but also that subtle twinkle that Ashley Eckstei brings to the role.
And yet, the first outing for Ahsoka spends more time with Sabine’s perspective. It establishes her as a badass who’d rather rock her speeder with anti-authoritarian style than be honored for her heroics. It shows her grieving a lost comrade whose sacrifice still haunts her. It teases out an emotional distance and rebelliousness between her and her former mentor. And it closes with her using her artist’s eye to solve the puzzle du jour, and defend herself against a fearsome new enemy.
This is her hour, and while Sabine is older, more introverted, all the more wounded than the Mandalorian tagger fans met almost a decade ago, this opening salvo for the series is better for it.
My only qualms are with the threat du jour. Yet another Jedi not only survived the initial Jedi Purge, but has made it to the post-Return of the Jedi era without arousing the suspicions of Palpatine, Vader, Yoda, or Obi-Wan. Ray Stevenson brings a steady and quietly menacing air to Baylan Skoll, the former Jedi turned apparent mercenary, but there's enough rogue force-wielders running around already, thank you very much.
His apprentice holds her own against New Republic forces and Ahsoka’s own former apprentice, but is shrouded in mystery. She goes unidentified, which, in Star Wars land, means she’s secretly someone important (a version of Mara Jade from the “Legends” continuity?) or related to someone important (the child of, oh, let’s say Ventress). And I’m tired of such mystery boxes.
Throw in the fact that Morgan Elsbet, Ahsoka’s source and prisoner, turns out to be a Nightsister, and you have worrying signs that the series’ antagonists will be rehashing old material rather than moving the ball forward. The obvious “We just killed a major character! No for real you guys!” fakeout cliffhanger ending doesn’t inspire much confidence on that front either.
Nonetheless, what kept me invested in Rebels, and frankly all of Star Wars, despite plenty of questionable narrative choices, is the characters. The prospect of Ahsoka trying to train a non force-sensitive Mandalorian in the ways of the Jedi, or at least her brand of them, is a bold and fascinating choice.
But even more fascinating is two people who once believed in one another, having fallen apart, drifting back together over the chance to save someone they both care about. “Master and Apprentice” embraces, rather than shying away from, the sort of lived-in relationships that made the prior series so impactful in the past, and the broken bonds that make these reunions feel fragile, painful, and more than a little bitter in the present.
I am here for Hera the general trying to patch things up between old friends. I am here for Sabine holding onto her rebellious streak but carrying scars from what went wrong, in the Battle of Lothal and in her attempts to learn the ways of the Jedi. And I am here for Ahsoka, once the apprentice without a master, now the master without an apprentice, here to snuff out the embers of the last war and reclaim what was lost within it.
They all feel right. The rest can figure itself out.
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@rivvvers So you didn't bother to read my write-up, but you did take time to comment on it? If you'd like to understand why I gave the score I did, might I recommend reading my review?
Meant to be set in the 90s but the woke bullshit is already out of hand.
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@kingy72 how is it 'woke'? This is literally the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy that was brought in during the 1990s
Just when you thought CBS couldn't make any worse Trek, they vomit out this garbage. Not a funny thing in it and the animation is appalling. Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave at warp 9.
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@taomyn I don't think he would. Behind the goofiness they do touch on similar subjects that TOS and TNG did. You might not like the humor, and that's your right, but the themes are very much Star Trek-y. And they call out Starfleet on a lot of their bullshit, especially in the second half, and that was refreshing.
What the heck were those lights?!
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@itswilder These lights were obviously Cylons. xD
literally the most boring storyline they ever did on b99. i couldnt care less about baby storylines in any show. why do writers think we need them.
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@apaethy because luckily most don't agree with you.
The stunning photo-realistic visuals don't hide how horribly this objectifies women. What possible reason was there for her to naked throughout the whole thing? Anyway, the ending was a cool little moment.
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@lefthandedguitarist Well, you seem to be taking some flak here, so I'll be the mensch who chimes in to agree with you. There's tasteful, story-relevant nudity, and then there's titillating sexuality for the sake of titillating sexuality. Especially when it's tied to a threat of violence. And particularly when the bounce physics on the softbody geometry of the Harley Quinn clone is cranked up so ridiculously high.
Fortunately, you and I are not the only thoughtful humans who feel this way:
'Love Death + Robots' has One Very Big Problem and it's Not Okay: http://tinyurl.com/y68dgcbf
'Love, Death + Robots' Was Made for Edgelords, and it Shows: http://tinyurl.com/yytjgt5e
Why Does it Feel Like 'Love, Death + Robots' Hates Women?: http://tinyurl.com/y2n895fj
'Love, Death + Robots' is Sexist Sci-fi at its Most Tedious: http://tinyurl.com/y4xp8oum
