boring as chuck , marvel has so much money and don't know what to do
Compared to Legion or Doom Patrol, this is like a kids show. Is this the best Di$ney/Marvel can do?
I’m sorry but that ish was boring as fxck
Trauma and abuse brought forth into physical form. Marc Spector isn't so much broken as he is simply been through hell and back, and Steven Grant is his coping mechanism, his way of allowing himself some peace in a world that seems to hate him. Asylum seeks to understand, not to fix; Marc's problems aren't gone by the end of the episode, simply that he has come to terms with his reality and has begun his search for "balance" in a way.
Moon Knight is strong in the same way that WandaVision was in that it takes these grand superhero operatics and seeks to use that as a tool to explore various ideas and the human condition, and while WandaVision is firmly cemented in grief, this show is more concerned with the complicated origins of mental illness. This is probably the darkest the mainline MCU has gotten (this isn't counting the Netflix shows of course) and while there was a fear that it wouldn't work with the rest of the universe it not only fits right in but also manages to carve out it's own identity - it still feels like it's own thing which is an impressive feat considering how entrenched much of the MCU is together. Easily my favourite episode of the show thus far.
It sucks. Disliked all characters, the editing is abysmal, and the gods are a joke when the whole comedy part feels off. A good show for 10 yrs or younger audience to enjoy juvenile dialogues and ridiculous fantasy.
That episode was epic! What an emotional roller-coaster.
This is my favorite episode in the Marvel TV universe to date. Brilliantly acted and pacing was phenomenal. The 47 minute episode flew by. Excited to see how this concludes.
Oscar Isaac can play any role, from the sweet guy to the heartless mercenary.
I don't know what to expect from the last episode, but this could be the best episode of the series. So touching and heartbreaking.
end credits song was the best part of this episode. the episode itself overreached, sadly. the worst episode yet in a seemingly overrated TV show this far.
Best episode so far, let's see how the last one will go
I'm really not sure what I saw, this was confusing for me.
Wow wow wow. Fantastic episode and my fav of the series so far.
There's no way that they just left us with THAT cliffhanger. What an absolutely incredible penultimate episode serving to be the best episode so far and genuinely one of my favourite pieces of the entire MCU to date. This was one hell of an emotional rollercoaster and I'm so much more
attached to both Marc and Steven and I cannot wait to see how the season ends next week! I genuinely cannot properly put into words how this episode has made me feel, but I still have tears in my eyes.
I don't care about the TV vs. film debate. THIS is cinema.
Looks like I'm in the minority here, but as someone who has been disappointed with this series (due to a combination of writing and superhero fatigue - it's real dammit), this was one of the best Marvel Disney+ episodes so far.
Marvel Studios you will pay for my therapy for real.
If after this episode you still think this show sucks, no you suck.
[8.3/10] This is the episode of Moon Knight that made the series click for me. I largely enjoyed what we got so far, from the strong direction to the great acting to the intriguing additions to the lore. But those superb pieces never really amounted to more than the sum of their parts to this point. What kind of show was this, exactly? Is it a horror pastiche? A psycho thriller? A throwback adventure tale? An internal psycho drama? I couldn't quite get my hands around it.
But this is the one that crystalizes it -- it’s a show about extreme childhood traumas and the resulting mental disturbance that affects a person for the rest of their life. It is a tragedy, an exploration of the self, a confrontation of one of the hardest things a person can go through and the psychological coping mechanisms that may or may not be healthy, but which the mind reaches for in times of crisis.
To the point, we now have two possibilities for Moon Knight. One of them is that all of this is real. Marc is the avatar of an Egyptian god named Khonshu. There is a villain named Harrow trying to revive an ancient deity of vengeance. Marc and Steven are venturing through the afterlife (sorry, “an” afterlife) with a goddess as their guide. The power of the Moon Knight, his powers and supernatural foes, are all genuine and part of the broader cosmology of the Marvel Cinematic Universe which has seen wilder and weirder things than this.
The other is that these are all the delusions of a poor, mentally distrubed man, currently trying to grapple with his myriad of traumas in a mental health facility. There is no Khonshu, only the hallucinations of a man grappling with the mental baggage of feeling responsible for his brother’s death, the emotional and physical abuse inflicted by his mother, and a career as a soldier and mercenary that once again put blood on his hands. Marc needed to contextualize all that killing, to explain it, justify it, account for it, and so invented Khonshu and these other grand forces,a reflection of the dead pigeon he saw near the cave where his brother died. His mother declared him a murderer, and this is way of processing that. Her death prompted him to check himself into a hospital lest he suffer further.
I feel the same way about these two possibilities as I do about the same sort of dichotomy in Kurt Vonnegut’s Slaughterhouse Five -- it doesn’t really matter whether or not it’s real. My assumption is, given that the MCU is more interesting with another spooky hero out there than if it’s all in one merc’s head, the Moon Knight business is real. Maybe the psych ward routine is another trick by Harrow, or a test from the gods, or some other mystical mumbo jumbo. But I assume Marc will figure out some way back to the real world and real events eventually, with perhaps some hint or wink that he could still be imagining all of this just to keep the audience guessing.
And yet, regardless of whether it’s “real” in-universe, the thematic and symbolic impact is the same. Marc blames himself for all the bad things that happened in his life since his mother’s death. He doesn’t think he’s worthy of being with Layla because he fears that if she knew the truth about him and her father, she’d see him the same way his mother does. He needed Khonshu as a form of salvation, to externalize his sense of being a murderer and the psychic weight of all those deaths that are slowly crushing him. Whether or not Khonshu is a genuine Egyptian god or delusion of an unwell human being is immaterial. The impact of the idea, the impressionistic rendition of what it would feel like to labor under such immense guilt and self-hatred, is what matters.
And yet, we know one thing is true: regardless of whether Marc is really Moon Knight, he did suffer a psychic break as a child and develop Steven as an alternate personality. I had assumed Steven was a product of more mystical mumbo jumbo, but this episode is downright frank about the more down-to-earth manner in which he appeared.
Steven was a defense mechanism to the abuse inflicted by Marc’s mother in the wake of his brother’s death. He is composed of the pieces of the same VHS tape of an adventure movie and game Marc played with his brother, meant to be a fantasy who can hold onto the good, loving relationship Marc had with his mom before tragedy struck. It is an extreme means to compartmentalize the psychic and physical torture of his childhood from a grieving but contemptible parent. I appreciate that, for all its fantastical elements, Moon Knight doesn’t just treat its multiple personality disorder like some wacky thing that just happens, but rather digs into it as the product of extreme events a child’s mind wasn’t capable of dealing with, that left scars which linger to this day.
On a personal note, I have to say that this was a tough episode to watch first thing in the morning. The MCU is no stranger to delving into harrowing (no pun intended) stories about trauma. Much of the post-Endgame output, particularly on the T.V. side, has been about processing the losses from the Blip and its aftermath. Wanda grappling with the loss of Vision, Bucky reckoning with his own history as a killer, Clint Barton still mourning Natasha Romanov have all been key parts of the series that preceded Moon Knight.
But I have to say, I was not prepared for this madcap journey of the mind to turn into a meditation on the tragic loss of a child, followed by years of blame and abuse from a parent, accompanied by severe psychic disturbance from the aftereffects of being beaten and shamed for your childhood and adolescence. People right off superhero films and shows as being for children, which is reductive to begin with. But this is the type of episode that shouldn’t just be put forward as an example of what these stories can achieve artistically, but as a disclaimer that not everything that involves comic characters is suitable for kids to consume. (I hope this comes with a warning for parents on Disney+, frankly.)
That said, I really like the approach this episode takes to such heavy materials. Candidly, I’m a sucker for this sort of Charlie Kaufman/Michael Gondry-esque exploration of the soul material. So reimagining Marc’s past as a journey through a psych ward with abilities to revisit key childhood moments and process the lives he’s taken in impressionistic ways works like gangbusters for me. The show doesn’t pull any punches when it comes to the brutal reality of Marc’s youth, but putting it in this package ironically makes it feel more impactful and visceral than plain flashbacks might.
I also love the hippo god. The CGI is surprisingly convincing for such a mythical creature, and her general attitude of a pleased middle manager excited to have guests for the first time in a while puts Moon Knight in line with some of the prosaic weirdness of Loki. The colorful iconography of the ship of the dead sailing on the sands, the ghouls of the past climbing aboard to drag our heroes to hell, and the beauty of the “sea of reeds” stands out.
And once again, Ethan Hawke does an incredible job, making the psychiatrist version of Harrow seem chipper and demure in a way his evil tempter guise does not. (I died laughing when Steven called him Ned Flanders-esque, a thought I had when I first saw the mustachioed, bespectacled version of the series’ villain.) There continues to be a quiet menace here that's hard to put your finger on, where Harrow says things that seem and sound right, but he seems like he’s putting on a show for his own purposes somehow. There’s great ambiguity in the performance that Hawke plays just right.
In the end, there is catharsis. Marc had to deal with his past to be able to get his heart in balance, a metaphor for the way he needed to process his trauma with his mom to find peace. There is obviously one more episode, and more ground to cover, but the idea of Marc reaching heaven, even if it comes at the cost of the meeker self he created to compartmentalize his worst and most difficult feelings about his mom, is poignant.
Putting the events we’ve seen thus far in that light helps make this show finally make sense to me. This is far and away the series’ best episode to date, with a difficult but raw and imaginative look at something unthinkable in the life of a parent and child, and a means to cope with so much psychic hardship all around. There’s more to come, but this is the Rosetta stone of the series, to put it in archeological terms -- the piece that helps to comprehend so much more about what we’ve seen so far, and understand its deeper meaning.
I'm confused. Didn't they hint a third personality in the last couple episodes? Well, the scales are balanced now, so I guess not.
Wish it was this good from the start tbh, series almost lost me with those first 3 episodes.
This is the first episode of this show that was actually good instead of aggressively ok.
What did I just watch? :rolling_eyes:
To those who didn't like the episode are you mad? That's the best episode so far!!
this is the episode I needed to watch and felt the most connected to Marc and Steven, it was amazing and Oscar Isaac was spectacular through all of this.
I know there's still an episode left but this one will be my favorite from the MCU television shows for a long long time.
Probably great, if you are 10-12yrs old, otherwise total crap. Series deleted. forgotten. Except for Oscar Isaacs god-aweful English accent, which will haunt me everytime I see him from now on.
Uh excuse me, how is there only one episode left? I'm gonna need more than that.
a true masterpiece of an episode, i'll never recover from the heartbreak
I would like to see some Moon Knight action in a show called Moon Knight please… worst episode so far.
Absolutely not what I was expecting. But wow. That was a fantastic ride.
It's his mummy.....I'll walk myself out xD
Oh my days this episode was so good. I really cleared everything up like I understand now. Poor Marc and pooor Steven like he’s had a rough life. I can’t believe the mum so mean man. But yeah this was probably my favourite episode so far.
Absolutely beautiful episode. It was seriously one of the best TV episodes I have ever seen.
They are being brave in what they say, the actors help make it believable
If you liked this ep, don't miss Mr. Robot :robot:
Changed my life.
Thank me later ❣
Oscar Isaac's acting is on POINT
holy crap what an ending
also jeez that reveal! they did their research on did clearly
I have 3 words to describe this episode. What. The. fuck.
It’s like Marvel just stopped giving a shit, it’s hilarious to watch.
I feel like this is their attempt at being experimental, but it’s really just turning into schlock, which is only amplified by the really awful green screen, ridiculous character designs and poor lighting choices.
It looks, feels and acts like a cheap Bollywood knock-off of what could be a good Marvel movie/show.
Marc's mom is the most evil MCU villain BY FAR
This one hurt to watch but I was glued to my TV the entire episode.
Okay, the structure of this plot is really unravelling in these last few eps. But I'll forgive it because of all the juicy character stuff here. I will say Oscar Isaac is definitely giving his... most performance here. I wish he relied a tad more on restraint to make those big emotional moments more punchy but overall it wasn't distractingly bad here.
Oh dear, this got real dark real quick. I don't really like it anymore - it's just way too messed up and I should stop watching such TV shows.
That whole mother thing is really messed up, schizophrenia is super horrifying (movies and TV shows might be scary but the problem with schizophrenia is that it does exist IRL - I'm not that scared of it as I hopefully shouldn't be at risk but the thought of it / imagining having it is absolutely horrifying), and that psychic stuff is even worse (it would completely break my reality - we humans don't know anything but at least we can take comfort in the fact that things currently behave in a predicable way / make sense / are consistent - such a psychic trip would completely break that consistency though).
Anyway, I'd rather enjoy life than to worry about such things (and this is one of the reasons why I'll definitely stay away from drugs - they can be fine but I won't dare risking it as it's just not worth it for a long shot for me).
PS: At least the hippopotamus had a kind personality (that provided a little bit of comfort).
What a boring, psychedelic shit show .
I appreciate the swing here but I could’ve watched lots more of the MCU Indiana Jones thing from the last episode. The characters remain great for me even if the plotting is all over the place.
Well this took a different turn..
The show was just a huge disapointment and bore so far, and then this great episode came... I don't understand why the rest of the show isn't up to this standard. Such a shame...
I’m sort of surprised that a series with very little emotional setup could have even a modicum of payoff. Then again, we have to give 100% of the credit to Oscar Isaac carrying literally all of the weight on his shoulders to make it happen.
As someone not necessarily totally on board with Wandavision, it’s odd to me that I was able to get into this episode when it is almost identical to the structure of some of the later episodes of that series. Wandavision also planted the seeds for that emotional payoff in a much more meticulous and deserving fashion. All in all, I suppose I’ll say I liked this episode as much as I liked Wandavision, it’s just that I found the whole of that series more up to the task of its emotional climax so the fact that Moon Knight is even approaching that level is kind of impressive to me.
As I’ve been saying, Moon Knight is juggling too much. We’re introducing a brand new character, a brand new mythos, and a brand new set of powers to the MCU. On the whole, I’d say that this series has not been successful as an introduction for this character to the MCU based on the criteria set out for something of this ilk by either MCU streaming series or a phase IV introduction. And although it might sound weird to put it this way, it’s because I find it very confusing that these characters have barely referenced anything that’s happened re: Avengers (I think the only thing I flagged was the call out to Black Panther’s ancestral plane?) and it creates a sense of continuity questions for everything we’re seeing onscreen. Shang-Chi did this incredibly well. There are references to the events of the MCU all over the place—Abomination and Wong even show up—so while there is an entirely new character and mythos introduced, the burden feels lesser because it doesn’t feel like I’m trying to also reconcile its place within its franchise. While there is still one episode to go, I’m having a difficult time figuring out how Moon Knight will apply himself to the MCU as a whole. Before passing final judgments I’ll wait until I’ve seen the next episode, but it is a question weighing heavily on my mind.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the episode of this series I’ve enjoyed the most has almost no fighting sequences to speak of either. The action choreography has been so weak in this show that the absence of it immediately benefits the entire package. Let it be an adventure show, let it be weird and psychological. But just keep the weightless CG fights to a minimum.
All in all, this episode is too little too late but still not a total loss.
So the last episode was basically The Sixth Sense, and now this episode is Black Mirror.
7,5/10
h h h h h
:white_check_mark:87% :thumbsup:26 :thumbsdown:4
THUMBS UP:
I love how this episode doubles down on the major twist from the previous episode while using it to further the Jeff Lemire-inspired narrative and delve deeper into the Egyptian mythology that is such a huge part of the show.
We are finally given some more backstory to help flesh out the main character of the show - this happens through a rather effective method of having Steven and Marc relive old memories - and it gives Steven a dark past that makes his current status more relatable.
The long-awaited Moon Knight origin story is told here, and it's wonderfully faithful to the comics.
The episode still navigates multiple narrative planes, keeping the truth of the matter shrouded in mystery - which plane is the reality, or all they all (or none of them) part of it?
The very end of the episode goes in yet another surprising direction and offers an emotionally strong ending thanks to all build-up during the episode.
Gotta say the Ned Flanders joke was a good one!
The hippo lady is hilarious, but her true purpose remains somewhat undefined as of yet.
This episode interestingly brings out both Marc and Steven at the same time, allowing for a very different sort of interaction between them.
Now we finally know who is the original persona, and who appeared later to cope with emotional trauma. The characterization of Marc and Steven is stronger than ever before and used for some genuinely emotional moments - it also feels like a fine representation of how DID can work in reality.
The fight scene at the end followed by the emotional twist puts the Steven/Marc dynamic on its head heading into the final episode, so it will be interesting to see how everything plays out.
Oscar Isaac keeps upping his game and this is yet another impressive double-turn from him, particularly in the role of Steven.
Ethan Hawke is similarly convincing with his almost annoying and treacherous calm, particularly when compared with his performance during the first half of the series.
Slower in tone and with a bigger focus on emotions and symbolism, Episode 5 is another character-centred piece, meant to provide more backstory by showing us emotional key moments from Steven's and Marc's pasts.
The final moments are heartbreaking precisely because we've spent most of the episode learning more about Steven and Marc as individuals and two parts of a whole.
THUMBS DOWN:
This series still feels very detached from the larger MCU and feels at times so focused on religion and mythology that it's difficult to see its relevance within the franchise.
Spending the entire penultimate episode on providing backstory, which should have been brought in sooner, feels somewhat weird given the fact that there's only one episode left to wrap up the narrative.
This one goes for a more hectic and fractioned direction and editing style, which at times makes it hard to follow.
I don't understand why someone would create an alternate personality and not let it take the brunt of the trauma. Still a great episode though
Legion did it much much much better. Insane to me people like this shit storytelling.
66 | That was an emotional one. When we slowly know the truth about Marc, the more we understand Steven is. But, the impact of that truth did not feel as strong as it should be. Might be because we expect this kind of truth happened so the element of surprise became weaker than it should be. Nevertheless, Marc and Steven are enjoyable characters. Oscar Isaac succeeded to brought that characters alive. When there is life, there is death. That's how life finds its balance.
My Instagram: @moviemanner
•••••••••••••••••••••••
Rating: 65.04
Plot
P1: 1.2
P2: 0.9
P3: 1.2
P4: 1.2
Director: Mohamed Diab
Favorite Characters
1.6: Oscar Isaac as Marc Spector
1.5: Oscar Isaac as Steven Grant
1.3: Ethan Hawke as Arthur Harrow
1.2: Fernanda Andrade as Wendy Spector
1.1: Antonia Salib as Tawaret
1.0: Rey Lucas as Elias Spector
Character Score Meaning
0.0 - 0.1 - 0.2 - 0.3 - 0.4 : Terrible
0.5 - 0.6 - 0.7 - 0.8 : Bad
0.9 - 1.0 - 1.1 - 1.2 : Average
1.3 - 1.4 - 1.5 - 1.6 : Good
1.7 - 1.8 - 1.9 - 2.0 : Great
Sort of fun execution, but that's about it. Tho I'm glad to know I can fight my way out of final judgement.
Damn. I don’t know what else to say.
The way he lost his brother is ridiculous, they actually let 2 kids go to a cave alone and immediately it rained they could solve it another way. The show is boring.
That was an emotional catastrophe!
Shout by alexnaderBlockedParent2022-04-27T09:10:14Z
That was one of the least "related looking" TV-families I have ever seen, LMAO. The kids didn't look like brothers , and neither of them looked like the parents. Really odd casting choice.